Posted by 452 on 2013-06-08 06:51:16

Videos make people lazy, and are completely against the purpose of a wiki.

This isn't youtube. If you want to watch someone play Saints Row, there are plenty of video walkthroughs which don't give you all the information you need.
Here on the Saints Row Wiki, we value write-ups over videos, and have been phasing out videos for a number of reasons.

A couple of years ago, Moozipan Cheese and I discussed removing videos, at that time I advocated that they should be kept, but my only reason was that they showed content which was otherwise not included on the wiki.
Since then, Moozipan Cheese has overhauled every mission article for Saints Row and Saints Row 2, watched every walkthrough video embedded on those pages and ensured that everything was described in text before removing the videos.
As the content of those videos is now included as text and images, this means that the only good reason I could ever find for keeping videos is no longer applicable.

Clips of actual demonstrations are welcome if they show what pictures can't:

  • I've uploaded videos in the past, in particular there is one of my Protagonist performing an Idle action - demonstrating that The Protagonist can switch to Idle mode, walk a short distance and begin reading a book.
  • Some rare vehicles are difficult to obtain, and sometimes a video is the only way to show exactly how to do something. However, in many cases, a well-written step by step walkthrough will do.


Videos are not easily editable.

  • The point of a wiki is that it's editable by anyone. It's much more difficult to edit a video, and while videos can be replaced, it's not easy to see changes.
  • The point of a wiki is collaborative editing, videos are not a collaboration, and therefore are not within the spirit of a wiki.
  • The point of a wiki is being able to add information, and remove false information. If someone leaves out a detail in a video, or says something false, we cannot edit and correct it.
  • Videos make it harder to spot vandalism. It's easy to see in a diff log when an article has been vandalised. The New Files page makes it easy to spot junk images, but as the admins here do not have time to watch every video which has been uploaded, we do not know what the content is. They could have advertisements, obscenity, harassment, discrimination - they could have any number of things which are against Wikia's TOU and not welcome on this wiki.


Saints Row 1 How to Make Easy cash03:06

Saints Row 1 How to Make Easy cash

Videos are not hosted by us, therefore:

  • We have no control over whether the uploader decides to remove them. This has happened with many videos in the past, and we have no automatic way of knowing when one of a hundred videos stops working. When a video embedded in a wiki page stops working, a random visitor will think that the wiki sucks because it contains broken videos.
  • They are not covered by the licenses here. Anyone can add anyone else's video without permission.
  • They cannot easily be exported. All text and images can easily be downloaded from a wiki, but this is not so for youtube.


Each article on this wiki has a talk page where users can ask questions about the content of an article. If something is poorly worded, unclear, or incorrect, it can be discussed and corrected.

Anyone can check the check the history of an article and leave a message with the user who added that information.

As youtube videos are not necessarily created by users of the wiki, what should you do if you want to ask a question about the content?

  • If you have a question about a youtube video, users on this wiki may not be able to answer it, and in any case should not be expected to watch an off-site video.
  • People who create youtube videos often poorly communicate what they are actually doing, using the video in lieu of step-by-step instructions.
  • Youtube comment sections are notoriously terrible, and no-one should have to resort to asking there.
  • If you have a question about something you saw on this wiki, you shouldn't have to go elsewhere to get an answer.


In many articles, videos were previously being used as placeholders for actual content.

  • Videos make people lazy, a page containing only a video is not an article, it's a video.
  • In most cases, those articles have been revamped and the videos are no longer needed, and have been removed.
  • Most example videos don't really show examples very well, step-by-step directions are more useful.


  • Videos cannot be searched, and are the enemy of search because if someone includes a video showing something, they might decide to not write out what they're trying to say.
  • Videos are unprofessional. You never see YouTube videos on Wikipedia, and as we try to improve this wiki, it makes sense to replace videos with more professional write-ups and example images.
  • While a picture is worth 1000 words, this does not necessarily scale up for video. Most videos contain a lot of useless filler, the point of most videos and be shown in a single image, or a series of images.


Game Trailers was created especially for videos, but that page is not very useful because:

  • No-one ever wrote write-ups.
  • The page cannot be searched.
  • The page contains no links to other articles.
  • Exporting that page is useless.
  • Some of the videos are now deleted, and no-one noticed.

As the Game Trailers page was marked for cleanup 4 years, and people continued to add videos without adding descriptions, it was marked for deletion for 4 months, and has now been deleted.

Trailers should be used as references, not embedded.

All pre-existing trailers are now linked as references on each game page - they still require write-ups. Feel free to expand the trailers section on each game page.


If you can think of a good reason for videos to be included on this wiki, please speak! This wiki is run by the community, and that means you.

Right now, the only good reason we can come up with to keep a video would be if it shows something which definitely cannot be shown in an image, or adequately described in words.

452, 2013-06-08T06:51:16Z (last edited: 452, 2016-08-02T03:15:08Z)

I agree with everything up there, especially demonstration clips.
LividFrenzy, 2013-09-04T18:58:53Z
I agree with you, plus its a bitch when videos are deleted.
NathanJohnson, 2013-09-04T19:13:13Z
And it's still an annoyance, even when I'm removing them.
Just recently, I tried to watch a video to check if it showed anything useful - but it was deleted, who knows how long ago.
But even the videos which do work never show anything useful - but I still try to watch them all anyway, so I can't be accused of removing something valid.
452, 2013-09-04T19:25:00Z
I concur. Having to have videos is just not enough reward for the effort, I think, and removed videos is indeed a pain. However, demonstration videos seem reasonable enough.
OAndersson, 2013-09-04T19:40:24Z
The Wikia Terms of Use have been updated in regard to "licensed video content".
Media Content
Without limiting the application of any other terms of this Agreement, you also agree that you will not do, or attempt to do, any of the following:
  • attempt to download, redistribute, alter, delete, or insert advertising or promotional materials within any Media Content or in connection with any Media Player;
  • attempt to modify, enhance, edit, translate, adapt, alter, reverse engineer, decompile, disassemble, or create derivative works based upon any Media Player or Media Content;
It seems that Wikia's licensed videos are even further from the spirit of a wiki than normal videos.
While normal videos are more difficult to create derivative works from, it's still permitted to do so. But Wikia's "licensed videos" are expressly forbidden to create derivative works from.
To me, it seems like a case of trading in freedom for some convenience.
Even more worrying is this "You also agree that you will not attempt to download" nonsense.
  • Users of the Saints Row Wiki should expect that they are allowed to download any content they can access.
  • Users of the Saints Row Wiki should expect that they are allowed to create derivative works from any content they can access.
It seems that the easiest way to ensure that no-one attempts to break these rules is by not including any "licensed videos" here.
(Comments requested, please.)
452, 2013-09-20T00:59:12Z (last edited: 452, 2013-09-20T01:00:00Z)

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