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User Groups 2013

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Forum Index > Wiki News > User Groups 2013
Posted by 452 on 2013-03-22 21:40:19

Requesting feedback, please respond, or take the poll

Since the old User Group pages are confusing, I've decided to overhaul them again to make them much more useful, and integrated with the new user infobox.

In case you haven't noticed, everyone now has a shiny new blank user infobox on your user page, feel free to fill it out at your leisure. When you fill it out, you will automatically be added to the Project Task Forces relevant to your indicated interests.

Our old User Group page is Saints Row Wiki:User Groups, and there is some historical discussion on Saints Row Wiki talk:User Groups.

That User Groups page on this wiki has been here for a long time, and has had a lot of changes. It started out in 2009 as a place for people to just say "I want to be in the Los Brothers of Oiran gang!" and didn't actually have a purpose.

It was re-purposed over a year ago, because User Groups (AKA Projects, or Task Forces) on wikis are usually dedicated to editing and maintaining specific sections of the wiki, such as focusing on all store articles to ensure all purchasable items are listed, or ensuring all related articles have a common layout.

User:Moozipan Cheese is a one-man mission User Group, having completely overhauled all mission pages for both Saints Row and Saints Row 2, with very little help. Obviously others had previously contributed to those pages, and he kept some of the previous content, but I don't think there's a single paragraph on any mission page which he didn't at least re-arrange.
When he was just starting, he posted a mission layout guide, so that others could help, but he ended up doing it all himself.

I haven't really been using the user-groups page, as I wanted people to form their own groups and manage themselves, but I realise that I probably should have posted about my own weapons infobox project on the weapons user group page, amongst other things I've mostly been doing by myself.


The new user groups can be found under Category:Task Force (now Category:to-do)

As well as linking the new {{user}} to the user groups, I have also updated all the items on the To-do list with a template, with a parameter indicating the related project, so that the To-do list items are also listed on Project pages. This is dynamic, whenever an item is added to the to-do list, it is automatically listed on each project page.

All of this has now been implemented, but I'd like some feedback.

I've been checking other wikis for some ideas of how other people do things, but haven't found any good, active, examples.

1. What should we call them?
User Groups, User groups, usergroups, Projects, Task Forces, or something else? Different wikis use different names, but if we're going to do a overhaul anyway, we may as well consider renaming them "Projects" as a fresh start.
2. Names of each group
Do you agree that it's a better idea to name the groups after the focus? "User Group/Vice Kings" v "User Group/Missions". I kept the gang name as that was how it was originally, but I think it would be better use the "User Group/Missions" format. After all, you can still specify your favorite gang in your user infobox.
3. Do you like how it's easier to join a group, just by filling out the user infobox?
4. What do you want from user groups?
5. I'd also like general feedback on the new user group pages.

452, 2013-03-22T21:40:19Z (last edited: 452, 2016-05-01T13:56:22Z)

I've created Category:Task Force (edit: Now Category:to-do), and modified the user infobox to automatically add the related user group according to interests listed.
There is also a corresponding user group subpage for each new usergroup, but at the moment these are only linked from each category.
I'm thinking that there's really no point in the multiple subpages. Instead, the category pages can be used, and topics related to each user group can be posted as forum posts, with the relevant category added.
This makes it easier for anyone to start a discussion related to a user group.
I'll also create a simple template to add each category to a forum post.

I have not yet added a list of articles to each usergroup, I'll do that soon - via the header.
452, 2013-03-30T20:12:27Z (last edited: 452, 2015-02-12T16:00:10Z)
To-do changes:
  • The to-do list now uses the {{to-do}} template, which takes a project focus as a parameter and allows automatic listing on each project page.
See Category:To-do/Location for examples.
452, 2013-03-30T20:14:49Z (last edited: 452, 2015-02-01T03:45:09Z)
Also, I need to add at least one contrived to-do item for each group, so no-one can say "well, there's nothing to-do".
452, 2013-03-30T20:16:04Z
I'm also going to add an automatic list of relevant pages marked with cleanup, stub and fact tags.
This will be added via the header, using the same list of categories as the automatic article list.
452, 2013-03-30T20:21:04Z
Yes, I really like the idea of the user groups being categories, and topics being forum posts.
It lends itself very nicely to keeping things organised and easy to access. Instead of a template, there should just be a preload for each user group - and a "create new discussion for this usergroup" box on the user group page.
Does it need a heading? Or just a category? Definitely a heading, so that people stumbling onto the forum post through the forum listing know what it is.
"This is a discussion page for the Weapons Project user group, see link for more information about the Weapons Project."
452, 2013-04-02T01:26:58Z
Problem.
I need to hardcode all lists into the header. There's no other way around it that I can see. There's no shortcuts to tell DPL "get all of these categories" except by hardcoding... or doing a double dpl call. Maybe. I guess I'll try that.
edit: nvm, calling dpl as a parser function allows translcuding a template as any parameter, doing exactly what I need.
452, 2013-04-02T01:55:12Z
Working wonderfully.
452, 2013-04-02T03:51:25Z
Done, there is at least one post and one to-do list item for each project.
While categorising posts, i found an old to-do list in one of them which I have now added to the to-do list.
I'm also going to go back through my old "My edits" page and add those items.
edit: I was about to go do this, then realised I had already done it. Kind of like some of the things on the to-do list.
452, 2013-04-05T14:33:51Z
Done and done.
Currently, every single idea has been implemented, so I've updated the post accordingly.
I'm not sure what else... Rated articles? Adding a list of articles which have been rated, as well as articles which have not been rated - along with articles which have been requested to be rated.
I see no reason not to continue to push the article rating system. We can even add a list of "rated articles by project" - the mission articles would be a clear winner, of course.
452, 2013-04-05T14:36:30Z
I've also updated the shortest, oldest, and fewest revision templates so that they can return articles from certain characters, and added these to the user groups.
edit: done.
452, 2013-04-05T15:08:23Z (last edited: 452, 2013-06-05T21:18:13Z)
  1. I'm fine with how it's named at the moment, but I'm not sure on the capitalisation. I'm cool with it being changed if you feel it should.
  2. Perhaps "Gang name (focus)" or "Focus (gang name)"?
  3. I do, but then we end up with inactive users in them. We should probably remove them after being inactive for a certain amount of time.
  4. *Shrugs* I kind of like how they are; they're there if you want to join them but you don't have to if you don't want to. If we had a larger community we could probably do a lot more with them.
Moozipan Cheese, 2013-04-06T13:08:22Z
The problem of inactive users is definitely still a concern, especially since there's no easily automated way for me to drop inactive users. (Not that there is currently, either)
But I'm fine with risking having to remove a few more inactive users if it means we get a few more people contributing.

I just had an epiphany regarding the user group names.
One problem has always been that, apart from game-related branding, there's never been any real reason for the gang names. For instance, the title "Vice Kings" really has nothing to do with editing mission articles.
Perhaps what we need to do is keep all of them, new and old, but re-purpose the old ones to be more relevant to their titles.
The Vice Kings usergroup would be dedicated to editing articles about the Vice Kings - Characters, Missions, and adding info about gang vehicles and weapons used by the gang members, stuff like that.
It seems likely that people who "like the Vice Kings" would want to focus on editing articles about the Vice Kings.
The only trouble with this idea is that it's not exactly supported by the new userbox parameters, nor easily integrated with the new user group template. So people would still be part of the Characters group, but the Vice Kings group would be moved to User_Groups/Gang/Vice_Kings and people would have to "join" it manually.
452, 2013-04-06T14:35:33Z (last edited: 452, 2013-07-13T22:04:55Z)
Re: User Groups or Usergroups
It seems the standard is to name them "Usergroups" as one word.
These are the examples I could find.
Although I normally don't use what other wikis do as a guideline, in this case, I have looked at a variety of other wikis to see if they had any other usergroup ideas which help here.
452, 2013-04-06T14:57:07Z
Hmmm, I had forgotten about the rated articles list already.
It can be done easily. The trouble is that there isn't a rated article for each category. So the first thing I need to do is rate a few articles.
452, 2013-04-27T00:46:22Z
Hmm, I never did do that rated article list.
But I think I'll merge it with the basic list of articles, no point in having separate lists, when "all" articles should eventually be rated.
I'm not sure what happens if you attempt to do a labelled section transclusion on an article without a labelled section - I guess i'm going to find out soon.
452, 2013-06-04T00:34:26Z (last edited: 452, 2013-06-04T00:35:13Z)
I should probably do something about that epiphany.
edit: I'll need to create a separate user groups header, because the normal User Group header template won't work.
  • To-do list - will have to be cut
  • Project topics - can stay, but will be empty.
  • Discussions - can stay, but will be empty.
  • Requests can stay - will have entries
The main thing I need to do first is create gang entries on {{Project_categories}}
452, 2013-06-04T00:35:39Z (last edited: 452, 2013-07-13T22:17:21Z)
Which means I will at least have to rename them, and since I have to rename them anyway, I'd rather just switch the name to something else entirely.
I quite like "Task forces"
"I'm part of the Mission task force" sounds better than "I'm part of the Mission user group", or "I'm part of the Mission project"
edit: Since it doesn't really matter either way, and this post hasn't really gotten much attention, I've created a poll to decide.
452, 2013-06-05T21:28:33Z (last edited: 452, 2013-06-05T21:37:31Z)
Finally done as a separate list, I'm not sure what I was thinking a month ago, because the rating section isn't done using LST - only the featured summary is. So it was much easier than I thought.
452, 2013-07-13T20:19:07Z
I've been thinking more about this, and there's a slight problem of duplicate scope.
It's possible to do most of what I've proposed, but it's really not very useful. Particularly since no-one has ever actually said "I'm only interested in editing articles about Los Carnales", while there has definitely been people who have only been interested in weapons, vehicles and missions.
So, I'm not going to do the same kind of automatic lists for gang-specific user groups. Manual lists will have to do. I will add the post list, so that creating discussions is easy.
Correction: It wasn't as difficult as I was thinking, so there are automatic lists, the same as all other Task Forces, with the exception of To-do list entries, and the Relevant Discussions section. However, many gang-specific Task Forces have blank sections.
The hardest part is making project blogs possible for them, but since it's the easiest way to encourage discussions, I'm going to do it.
Since there isn't a "Category:User_Groups/Gang", I'm going to use that as the hub page for the gang-specific user-groups.
These gang-specific user groups will be given 1 more year, and if they're not used, they can be deleted.
452, 2013-07-13T22:04:17Z (last edited: 452, 2013-07-14T00:48:46Z)
I hit a roadblock - it's not currently possible to move pages into the Category namespace, so I'm going to wait to hear from Wikia Staff if that restriction can be removed.
It's also not possible to move category pages, but I've been doing it manually (copy/paste) - and if they do remove the restriction, then that would have saved me a lot of time.
452, 2013-07-13T23:00:55Z

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